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Dear All, Whilst not, at the moment, wishing to comment on specific contributions (following Gabriel's, by now, virtually worn-out deletion key), my own feeling is that - whilst focusing on Iraq is the essential aim of this list, it would, arguably not help the general discussion by imposing Great Hall of Beijing - type austerity & restrictions. Debating needs to be stimulating, something that stretches peoples minds, & encourages new & creative thinking. That may well, at times include the arts, other perspectives of the world, and, yes, humour, too. So, whilst acknowledging that Gabriel has a valid point, I don't think we would be doing anyone favours, by, constantly, trotting out the same old boring, repetitive platitudes. With respect to Gabriel, others on this List delete (sometimes unread) messages. Can he be certain they never include his? But, as I don't wish to get personal, I better stop here! Yours most sincerely, Bert. >From: "Voices UK" <voices@viwuk.freeserve.co.uk> >To: "casi" <casi-discuss@lists.casi.org.uk> >Subject: Re: [casi] For Elga S/Peter Brooke & All >Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 09:18:49 +0100 > >Dear List Members, > >As far as I can tell this - along with several other recent posts (eg. Bert >G's Don Quixote 'thread') has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of >this discussion list, namely Iraq. Could people please refrain from posting >such material to the list in future? I have to delete enough e-mails as it >is. > >Best wishes, > >Gabriel > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "AS-ILAS" <AS-ILAS@gmx.de> >To: "casi" <casi-discuss@lists.casi.org.uk>; "H Sutter" ><citext@chebucto.ns.ca>; "Peter Brooke" <pbrooke@ukonline.co.uk> >Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 11:56 PM >Subject: [casi] For Elga S/Peter Brooke & All > > >Dear Elga, Peter & all, > > >Without any lenghty sermon I'd like to share with you the "Prayer call of >Zarathustra" > >(Which is my tentative translation of a really congenial re-enactment (?) >[Nachdichtung] in German of the Old Persian texts. >Did so while preparing my own new translation of the Avesta). > >----------------------------- > > Elga, für Dich den originalen deutschen Text. >Ich würde mich nur freuen, wenn Du meine Übersetzung verbessern könntest. < >----------------------------- > >After some thousands years after those GATHAS were WRITTEN & PUT INTO >PRACTICE - why have we - companions of nowadays - fallen back so far behind >their moral standards, life vigour and inspiration ? > >How ashtonishingly timely and relevant they sound for today. > >Maybe .... really a re-enactment ? > >How much more then should just Christians care for those noble spiritual >goals and should - as the later borns - reach out even further ! > > >May this be a refreshment and revigoration for your soul(s) ! > > >Best > >Andreas > >------------- > >The prayer call of Zarathustra > > >(from the Gâthâs of the Avesta): > > >"Even the wisest among us >is not able to judge. >He is living his life, >others are living theirs. >GOD alone knows the end [...] > >I know only: >that with their teachings they are crushing something in my heart and >smothering my ardent desire for the GOOD slowly but constantly >and >that I am crying for redemption. > >Therefore I call a deceiver the one >who desecrates what is the deepest for me, >who is out to ruin my earth and >who is out to bar my sight into heaven, >who makes only sly and shrewd the prudents >teaching them only earthly profit >and crushes down the one striving for anything beyond, for the noble and >sublime. [...] > >Alas, they themselves carry on with their lives - but only at the costs and >poverty of others >cheating them out of their just reward and >all the time seducing more and more others with their acting [...] > >Shall they remain as they are >this will be punishment enough for them. > > >But let's see that they don't reach out any further ! > >Understand with me, >where such acting will lead to in the end >and such insight will save you. > >Let's make the earth free again, >fallen prey has she now to the furious. >Ideologues and oppressors are stifling life - >but together with life we shall be triumphing. > >For our life is more than eating and drinking: >Justice it is - >which is going through heaven and earth. [...] > >You, Oh GOD, know: >Only because I love the humans >I am praying this way." > > >From Yasnâ XXXII:7-16, in its interpretive translation by Paul Eberhart: >"Das Rufen des Zarathushtra (Die Gathas des Awesta) [The calling of >Zarathustra (The gathas of the Avesta)]. An attempt to give their meaning. >Jena 1913, p. 16-18. > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- > > > >Diesen Menschen ertönt noch immer der hoffnungsfrohe Ruf des Zarathustra >aus >den Gâthâs: > >"Auch der Weiseste unter uns >kann nicht richten. >Er lebt sein Leben, >die andern das ihre. >Gott allein weiß das Ende. [...] > >Ich weiß nur, daß bei den Lehren jener >etwas erdrückt wird in meinem Herzen, >daß die Sehnsucht zum Guten >langsam erstickt wird, >und daß ich schreie nach Erlösung. >Darum nenne ich einen Irrlehrer, >wer mir zu Schanden macht, was mir das Tiefste ist, >wer mir meine Erde verdirbt >und mir den Blick zum Himmel wehrt, >wer die Klugen nur schlau macht, >sie nur irdischen Vorteil lehrt >und niederschlägt den, der nach mehr strebt. >[...] Ja, sie selbst leben, aber von der Armut der anderen, >indem sie die Menschen um ihren Lohn bringen >und durch ihr Tun >immer neue dazu verführen. [...] > >Sollen sie bleiben, wie sie sind, >das ist Strafe genug für sie. >Aber laßt uns sorgen, daß sie nicht weitergreifen, >Sehet mit mir ein, >wohin ein solches Tun am Ende führen muß, >und diese Einsicht wird euch bewahren. >Macht uns die Erde wieder frei, >ein Opfer ist sie jetzt für Rasende. >Ideologen und Unterdrücker engen das Leben ein, >aber mit dem Leben werden wir siegen. >Denn unser Leben ist mehr als Essen und Trinken: >Gerechtigkeit ist es, >und diese geht durch Himmel und Erde. [...] > >Du, o Gott, weißt -- nur weil ich die Menschen liebe, >bete ich so."[41] > > >[41] Yasnâ XXXII:7-16, nach der großartig-kongenialen Wiedergabe durch Paul >Eberhart: Das Rufen des Zarathushtra (Die Gathas des Awesta). Ein Versuch >ihren Sinn zu geben. Jena 1913, S. 16-18. > > > >_______________________________________________ >Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq. >To unsubscribe, visit >http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss >To contact the list manager, email casi-discuss-admin@lists.casi.org.uk >All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq. >To unsubscribe, visit >http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss >To contact the list manager, email casi-discuss-admin@lists.casi.org.uk >All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile _______________________________________________ Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq. To unsubscribe, visit http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss To contact the list manager, email casi-discuss-admin@lists.casi.org.uk All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk