The following is an archived copy of a message sent to a Discussion List run by the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq.
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Dear Colleagues,
I appreciate the clarification from Voices (UK) and the welcome news that
there is some organized help for Mr. Galloway. If there were a single Galloway
in the U.S. Congress, the dying of Iraqi kids would likely end, because a U.S.
member of Congress could easily shame the US government into providing safe
water, at least to infants and children, by flying his/her buffed self to Iraq
and staying until this elementary act of decency were accomplished. The
failure of even Kuchinch (D-OH) or Lee (D-CA) to do this suggests that it will
matter little if Bush is ousted by ANY democrat. Of course, I hope I'm wrong,
but what reason is there for hope in any member of congress or Democrat like
Gov. Dean? These allegedly anti-war cowards won't even go to Iraq or stay
beyond a photo op. Photo ops don't stop attrocities...
I wonder if our non US colleagues appreciate the magnitude of pressure here
in the U.S. One key indicator is that now, even a US citizen can (and at least
one has been sto arrested) be arrested inside the US and , held without
charges or even recourse to a lawyer. This of course is enough to strike
terror into brave hearts; what it does to all by the most tiny minority is to
scare them into absolute silence. And now I'm learning why. Short of a formal
death warrent, which still, evidently, still requires a trial (even if by a
secret military tribunal), there is no practical way to defend one's self in
the U.S. from being named Prof #6 in the NY Post by Dr. Pipes or being
secretly being suspected of increasing mental deterioration by a faculty
colleague in a listserv message to one's entire department.
I hope things are better in the UK, but the "suicide" of Dr. Kelly makes
me wonder. Are you all under the same pressure as we are? Is civil liberty
gone in the UK too? Can you be held without charges or a lawyer -- no more
writ of habeus corpus, etc. Also any suggestions from Europe?
best,
tom
>===== Original Message From Voices UK <voices@viwuk.freeserve.co.uk> =====
>Tom appears to have misunderstood my e-mail. I did not describe his 'plight
>in the U.S. and urgent need for inspiration' or his concerns about the
>humanitarian situation in Iraq as 'nonsense.' The 'nonsense' I referred to
>was this fruitless back and forth about the appropriateness or otherwise of
>posting non-Iraq related e-mails to a discussion list about Iraq. Perhaps
>some clarification from the List Moderator can help resolve this point. I
>might add that I have no desire to block Tom's e-mails since some of them
>contain useful information.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Gabriel
>
>PS Tom writes that 'there seems little support for [George] Galloway.' It
>might interest him to learn that here in Britain defending GG appears to
>have been one of the main activities of the Stop the War Coalition (the
>biggest anti-war grouping).
>
>PPS The idea of Daniel Pipes sitting on the board of an 'Institute for
>Peace' is, of course, absurd. But then so, perhaps, is the idea of the US
>Government funding such an Institute. In any event to have been attacked by
>Pipes in the NYPost might be considered something of a badge of honour ...
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "nagy" <nagy@gwu.edu>
>To: "CASI discussion list" <casi-discuss@lists.casi.org.uk>; "Voices UK"
><voices@viwuk.freeserve.co.uk>
>Cc: <nagy@gwu.edu>
>Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 3:01 PM
>Subject: RE: [casi] re: non-Iraq related posts
>
>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> I not only respect Voices but frankly it was the heroic actions of
>Kathy
>> Kelly, of Vocices, that compelled me into taking steps which may have,
>among
>> other things, demolished my 20 year academic career in the U.S.
>>
>> I am sorry that the author views our plight in the U.S. and urgent need
>for
>> inspiration as "nonsense". I suggest that a possibly more constructive
>> solution is for the author to install a bozo filter to block all messages
>> from me as well as to block all messages from anyone else the writer
>views is
>> offensive or a waste of time.
>>
>> It is hardly by intention to start a flame war on CASI but the children
>> keep dying, there seems little support for Galloway or Ritter and now it
>seems
>> that it's fine to dismiss some of my concerns as "nonsense". Perhaps, Dr.
>> Pipes was right in designating me as the sixth professor in the US most in
>> need of adult supervision. And perhaps its right that my career, at least
>in
>> the U.S., should end.
>>
>> While I am zero suicidal, I have to wonder if Dr. Kelly had had more
>> support, maybe even from the CASI list serv, he might be alive now
>(assuming
>> that his death was really suicide.
>>
>> sincerely,
>> tom
>>
>> >===== Original Message From Voices UK <voices@viwuk.freeserve.co.uk>
>=====
>> >Dear List Members,
>> >
>> >I really don't have time to waste on this nonsense. It seems obvious to
>me
>> >that List members should exercise some self-restraint and confine
>themselves
>> >to Iraq-related posts. Like many others I'm subscribed to more than one
>> >discussion list and receive hundreds of e-mails every day. If they were
>all
>> >constantly spammed with off-subject e-mails I would spend my entire day
>> >pressing the delete key. I have more important things to do with my time.
>> >
>> >Best wishes,
>> >
>> >Gabriel
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: <VnStroope@aol.com>
>> >To: <voices@viwuk.freeserve.co.uk>; <casi-discuss@lists.casi.org.uk>
>> >Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 9:48 PM
>> >Subject: Re: [casi] Andreas: Zarathustra's Prayer Call-feel free to
>delete
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> [ Presenting plain-text part of multi-format email ]
>> >>
>> >> In a message dated 07/19/2003 3:05:35 PM Central Daylight Time,
>> >> voices@viwuk.freeserve.co.uk writes:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Could I reiterate my request that List members not post irrelevant,
>> >non-Iraq
>> >> > related posts to this List. John-Peter: if you want to send a message
>of
>> >> > this nature to Andreas, please do so by e-mailing Andreas rather than
>> >the
>> >> > whole list. I have enough e-mails to delete as it is (as I'm sure do
>> >many
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Gabriel,
>> >> your assessment of what is "irrelevant" is not necessarily the only
>> >> assessment. As this 'list' is not a monolithic non-organic chunk o'
>rock,
>> >perhaps you
>> >> are speaking for some, perhaps just for yourself, but certainly not for
>> >all.
>> >> I myself am non-religious and find the prayers irrelevant from a
>spiritual
>> >> perspective, but not at all irrelevant for one's soul. As we are all,
>at
>> >least
>> >> the people on this list who I know, emotionally weary and heartbroken
>the
>> >posts
>> >> of people like Andreas may not be irrelevant at all, in fact they may
>very
>> >> well be a highly relevant form of encouragement for some of our fellow
>> >> sojourners.
>> >>
>> >> Might I make a suggestion for YOU, Gabriel, why don't you exercise your
>> >> middle digit when deleting emails from me and the other bleeding hearts
>on
>> >the
>> >> list, and save us the time of having to delete YOUR testy responses, or
>> >worse,
>> >> respond to them.
>> >>
>> >> I respect your efforts on behalf of the people of Iraq, therefore, in
>the
>> >> future if I am going to post something with a heart, I will mark it
>with a
>> >> disclaimer which will alleviate you the consternation of reading it,
>alas,
>> >your
>> >> middle digit will have to massage the overworked delete key. Perhaps
>the
>> >rest of
>> >> you emotional liberals could do the same for Gabriel.
>> >>
>> >> I am speaking primarily for myself on this, feel free to delete or
>> >chastise
>> >> at will.
>> >>
>> >> Roger Stroope
>> >> Northern Arizona University
>> >> Flagstaff USA
>> >>
>> >> During the war crimes trials at Nuremberg, psychologist Gustave Gilbert
>> >> visited Nazi Reichsmarshall Hermann Goering in his prison cell. "We got
>> >around to
>> >> the subject of war again and I said that, contrary to his attitude, I
>did
>> >not
>> >> think that the common people are very thankful for leaders who bring
>them
>> >war
>> >> and destruction," Gilbert wrote in his journal, Nuremberg Diary.
>> >>
>> >> "Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why
>would
>> >> some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best
>that
>> >he can
>> >> get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? ... That is
>> >> understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who
>determine
>> >the policy
>> >> and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it
>is a
>> >> democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a parliament or a communist
>> >dictatorship
>> >> ... That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being
>attacked
>> >and
>> >> denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country
>to
>> >> danger. It works the same way in any country."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq.
>> >> To unsubscribe, visit
>> >http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss
>> >> To contact the list manager, email casi-discuss-admin@lists.casi.org.uk
>> >> All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq.
>> >To unsubscribe, visit
>http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss
>> >To contact the list manager, email casi-discuss-admin@lists.casi.org.uk
>> >All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk
>>
>> Tom
>> Thomas J. Nagy, Ph.D.
>> Assoc. Prof. of Expert Systems
>> George Washington Univeristy Sch. of Business & Public Mgt.
>> Washington, D.C. 20052
>> home.gwu.edu/~nagy
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq.
>To unsubscribe, visit http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss
>To contact the list manager, email casi-discuss-admin@lists.casi.org.uk
>All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk
Tom
Thomas J. Nagy, Ph.D.
Assoc. Prof. of Expert Systems
George Washington Univeristy Sch. of Business & Public Mgt.
Washington, D.C. 20052
home.gwu.edu/~nagy
_______________________________________________
Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq.
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To contact the list manager, email casi-discuss-admin@lists.casi.org.uk
All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk